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December 23, 2007

گفتگو با ناصر زرافشان : استقلال دانشجويان مطلوب حاکميت نيست

زرافشان که خود به علت وکالت پرونده "قتل هاي زنجيره اي" سال هاي زيادي را در زندان گذرانده، در مصاحبه با ‏روز با تاکيد بر عزم راسخ اش بر دنبال کردن اين پرونده، از "استقلال جنبش دانشجويي" از بخشي از جريانات وابسته ‏به حکومت نيز گفته و همچنين اينکه: "اين تغيير نگرش براي برخي هامطلوب نبوده؛ و علت تفاوت نوع برخورد امسال ‏با دانشجويان به اين تحول دروني جنبش دانشجويي باز مي گردد."متن مصاحبه در پي مي آيد. ‏

نظر ناصر زرافشان در مورد دستگير شدگان تجمع دانشجويي 16 آذر که مي گويد برگزار کنندگان آن"دانشجويان ‏آزادي خواه و برابري طلب" بودند، اين است: "همه دانشجو هستند. نام دانشکده ها، سال تحصيلي و مشخصات دقيق ‏همه آنها را داريم.تعداد بازداشت شدگان حدود 32 نفر است؛ که البته در مورد اسامي يکي دو نفر ترديدهايي وجود دارد ‏و قطعيت اينکه دستگير شده باشند، مشخص نيست. به غير از اين هويت بقيه کاملا مشخص است؛ به همين علت من نمي ‏دانم منظور از "مشتي آشوب طلب" و يا "با کارت مجعول" چيست. البته اسمي در بيانيه وزارت اطلاعات نيامده؛ ولي ‏اگر منظورشان، جريان دانشگاه است بايد بگويم دستگيرشدگان مصداق هيچکدام از اين موارد نيستند. همه دانشجو هستند ‏و ديروز و پريروز هم دانشجو نشده اند. تقريبا هويت همه آنها در فعاليت هاي دانشجويي، روشن است. به همين دليل ‏اميدوارم اين مورد هم از آن مواردي نباشد که ابتدا لباس را خيلي گشاد دوخته اند و بعد سعي مي کنند براي اينکه تن با ‏آن لباس بخواند، آن را چاق و لاغر کنند. در واقع تند رفته اند و حالا با اين عناوين غلاظ و شداد مي خواهند برخوردي ‏را که با اين جريان شده، توجيه کنند".‏

‎از زرافشان در مورد علت اين انکارها، بخصوص در مورد جرياني به وضوح دانشگاه، مي پرسم. پاسخ ‏وي اين است:‏‎
نظر شخصي من اين است که ظرف يک سال و نيم گذشته به دنبال سرخوردگي ها از الگوها و وعده هاي قبلي، ‏بخصوص در ميان جماعت دانشجويي که اين مسئله زودتر از ديگر جريان هاي اجتماعي خود را در آن نشان داد، ‏مقداري تغيير نگرش نسبت به مسائل به وجود آمد. يعني جريان دانشجويي متوجه شد که به بالا نگاه کردن و منتظر ‏تحول ماندن در در برخورد قدرت ها، ديگر کافيست. بايد يک مقداري پايين آمد و به خواسته هاي مردم و سازماندهي ‏مردم، حول اين خواسته ها و همچنين پايگاه مردمي، فکر و در مورد آن کار کرد. اين تغيير نگرش ظاهرا براي برخي ‏ها مطلوب نيست و دليل تفاوت نوع برخورد امسال با دانشجويان هم به اين تغيير و تحول بر مي گردد. در واقع برخورد ‏امسال نسبت به سال هاي قبل بي سابقه بود. بخصوص که 16 آذر، نماد مقاومت جريان دانشجويي در برابر ديکتاتوري ‏رژيم گذشته و سلطه بيگانه است. لذا من نمي دانم اين عناد آشکار با 16 آذر و جريان دانشجويي را چطور مي توان ‏توجيه کرد.‏

‎شايد در اين شرايط عناد زياد با آمريکا مطلوب نباشد...‏‎
ظاهرا نتيجه اي غير از اين نمي شود گرفت.برخوردها و حرکاتي که شد، هيچ توجيه قانوني ندارد. در همين ارتباط دو ‏تن از دانشجويان براي صحبت در مورد وضعيت دوستان دستگير شده شان و اعلام وکالت آنها پيش من آمده بودند. من ‏چون در منزل فرم وکالت نامه نداشتم براي تنظيم وکالت نامه همراه آنان به طرف دفترم راه افتاديم. اما در نيمه راه در ‏محاصره چند اتومبيل قرار گرفتيم. آنها ابتدا آن دو دانشجو را از من جدا کردند و بعد در حاليکه مرا نمي شناختند وارد ‏منزل من شدند. هر چه نوشته، ترجمه و چيزهايي از اين دست ـ حتي دفاتر تلفن ـ بود را جمع کردند و بردند. در حاليکه ‏براي بازرسي خانه، دستور قضايي لازم است و براي دستور قضايي هم بايد پرونده اي وجود داشته باشد و اتهامي ‏متوجه شخص باشد؛ تازه مقدمه طبيعي همه اينها اين است که هويت فرد روشن و محرز باشد؛ اما آنها تا زماني که وارد ‏منزل من شدند، نمي دانستند هويت من چيست.اينها همه قانون شکني است. البته بعد از اينکه صورت جلسه کردند در ‏ميانه راه به آنها گفتند بردن من منتفي است. آنها هم به من گفتند شما برگرديد، اگر ضروري بود خبرتان مي کنيم ولي ‏وسايلم را بردند. اين برخوردها با کدام معيار و با کجاي آيين دادرسي کيفري مي خواند؟‏

‎به اين ترتيب زرافشان چگونه انتظار دارد از اين دانشجويان که احتمالا به آنها دسترسي هم نخواهد داشت، ‏دفاع کند؟ پاسخ وي اين است:‏‎
کار من وکالت است. اين وظيفه من است. اينها هم موکل من هستند؛ در نتيجه من به وظيفه قانوني خود عمل مي کنم؛ ‏ضمن اينکه در هر حال ما هيچ کاري را به شرط موفقيت قطعي که انجام نمي دهيم. انجام وظيفه مي کنيم. من اعلام ‏وکالت کرده ام و در اولين لحظه اي هم که بتوانم آن را ثبت مي کنم.‏

‎ولي اين نوع برخوردها، رابطه حکومت و مردم را به چه سمت مي برد؟‏‎
به همان سمتي که اخيرا در بعضي نشريات شاهدش بوديم؛ نشرياتي که روزگاري داعيه اصلاح طلبي هم داشتند، نشسته ‏اند و عليه جريانات اجتماعي خط و گرا و نشاني مي دهند. آن هم در شرايطي که آنچه اتفاق افتاده و شيوه عملکرد ‏جماعت، بي سابقه بوده است. رفتن به داخل دانشگاه و دستگيري دانشجويان در داخل دانشگاه ها!به اين ترتيب، تضادها ‏رو به تشديد مي رود.‏

‎شکل گيري گروه هاي مختلف در درون دانشگاه از ديد ناصر زرافشان، چنين تحليلي دارد:‏‎
وجود گروه هاي مختلف در دانشگاه خود يکي از دلايل فروپاشي وضع سابق است؛ وضعيتي که جريان تحکيم وحدت، ‏در واقع اسب سواري بخشي از خود حاکميت بود. اما اينک اين وضع تغيير کرده، آن توهم از بين رفته و تنوع گروه ها ‏هم از نتايج اين وضعيت است. در واقع دانشگاه به سمتي مي رود که اقتضائات جامعه ايجاب مي کند.اين مفهوم، ‏مفهومي است قدرتمند که عمل هم مي کند. مهم نيست که به لحاظ کمي، هر کس در فلان روز مي تواند چند نفر را دور ‏خود جمع کند، مهم اين است که جريان دانشجويي که زماني مرکب بخشي از حاکميت بود که از آن بار مي کشيد و به آن ‏مي خنديد ـ همان هايي که حالا بعضي از آنها به مسئولين خط مي دهند که اينها چنين اند و آنها چنان و بايد کوبيدشان ـ ‏امروز حساب خود را با اينها تسويه کرده و به اقتضائات جامعه توجه پيدا کرده است. سمت آينده، اين سمت است.‏

‎و سئوال آخر:به جنبش مستقل دانشجويي اميد داريد؟‎
من به جامعه و مردم اميد دارم. ‏

51 comments:

Anonymous said...

یعنی یه نفر پیدا نمی شه جلوی این چرندیات زرافشان را بگیره؟
این قدر ضد و نقیض صحبت کرده که حتی یه مامور اطلاعات هم چنین توانایی نداره

با این مسخره بازی داره پرونده این دانشجوهای بیچاره را خرابتر می کنه

بابا کنترلش کنید

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